BGO Discussion Forum

Hey my Brothers and Sisters in Arms:

Being the very proud owner of a STI 1911 style full size semi auto firearm, in the .45 acp caliber with all the right bells-n-whistles and safety stuff. I shoot my STI Spartan model 1911 in competition ONLY and it's not used for home or personal defense.

Matter of fact I just packed up my "stuff" a few minutes ago for a Sunday USPSA match in Phoenix...six 8 round mags, enough ammo to bring down the house, eye protection, hearing protection, my action pistol belt assembly [Velcro stuff by CZ Arms] and of course...the Spartan. You know my Brothers and Sisters, I did not realize that the STI company in Texas has a 9MM version!

Dang...I need to investigate this.

This past February when I shot at the annual Western States Single Stack [1911 style] Classic match in Phoenix, and had mucho FUN in the process as my 1st official match. Several of the shooters in my squad asked me why I did NOT have a spare, "backup". The reason why they asked was.....they observed that several times I had some misfeeds, ammo jams in the Spartan and saw me struggling to clear, make ready and continue to shoot the course of fire!

I am so thankful that members [fellow squad members] saw my delimma and came to my aid, to point out NOT my shooting deficencies [accuracy] but, the problems with my firearm!! I later, after I got back to my crib come to realize that I had a "ammo problem". The reloads I was using that I made up here at my crib....there was an "issue" with how the reloads were put together!!

On the recommendation of a fellow shooter [and later come to find out he is the Chrono guy to check each weapon after the match] in Phoenix. I purchased a new, different sizing die [Lee] for my Dillon XL-650 reload machine and THAT did the trick!! Yup, I reloaded over 400 rounds of .45acp ammo with the new die, inserted each round into my case gauge [where previously some rounds would stick in the gauge] then stored the ammo in individual 50 round plastic boxes. Went to the range, shot over 200 rounds and not one round jammed on me with the STI 1911!!

So as I digress here at this point in time.....

I would like to check out the STI 9mm version of their Spartan 1911. It should physically fit the competition Blade Tech holster I currently use. I probably would have to go out and purchase new Blade Tech mag pouches as the 9MM magazine is a bit smaller in size but then again....maybe not.

More investigation is in order on this STI 9mm Spartan semi auto. Would be sweet to own one as 9MM is my favorite caliber!

The 9mm mags will be the same size as the .45ac mags. Depending on the maker and capacity you should be able to use the same mag pouch for both calibers. I was able to use the same for both my 9mm and .45acp Para 1911's. I bought my 9mm with the hope of using it as a competition only gun, but it never panned out. I think your accuracy and time will improve when you switch over to 9mm. If I made it a point to shoot more competition matches, I want to get two RIA 1911's and have them fine tuned by a 1911 smith. Having a back-up during competition is essential to staying in the game. Its also needed for when training.

Yes, I come to think further about having a "backup" competition semi auto and I just might look seriously at that new STI 9mm 1911. The new Beretta 92FS I now have handles 15 rounds in the two factory mags and because of the thickness of the magazine, it is a little bit too large for the 1911 style mag pouches I am using for competition shooting.

I really do not want to dedicate the Beretta to competition shooting [as the backup] because if I did it means having to buy a new competition holster and two extra double mag magazine pouches. A lot cheaper then buying a brand new STI 9mm handgun I might add!! But owning a new STI 9mm semi auto would be kinda nice.

Its now 4:47am MST. I need to get off this computer, shower, get dressed and get ready for the 2 hour drive up north to the Phoenix area and that competition match I spoke about earlier. The particular club has this match every 2nd Sunday of the month and so here I go ONLY, because they offer at least one USPSA stage that I need to score, to add the stats to my USPSA slowly growing data base. Otherwise I'd stay home, hit my local range and practice for a couple of hours.

Later amigo. Enjoy the rest of the weekend. I've been watching the Masters golf tournement all week and today is the last day in Augusta Georgia [your home state]. I will be recording the final match today while I am up in Phoinex but hope to get back home in time, to see who will get that green jacket!!

Tiger Woods...doubt it, he's not at his best. Phil Mickelson....a good chance...Fred Couples...a damn good chance, he deserves a win!! Might just be an upset and a amateur, first time competitor might take the green jacket. Now THAT would be something!!

Adios

Wouldn't the 1911 and 92F be in different categories? When shooting IDPA I have to make sure I'm shooting a gun that keeps me in the Standard Service Pistol (SSP) category. I'm not ready for any other cat's yet. I did shoot my SA 1911 at a Classifier last month and I ran it pretty well, but I'm gonna stick to Glocks for now.

No, the two firearms are not necessarily in different catagories/divisions. With USPSA competition you first decide which catagory your firearm will be used and how you plan to shoot the weapon in a match. Yes, USPSA allows you to choose the event that BEST suits your equipment and shooting abilities!

Open class..you can shoot either the 1911 [7-8 rounds] with multiple magazines or the higher capacity Beretta 92FS [15 rounds] with no limit on how many rounds you carry on your belt and how many rounds you need to shoot to complete the course of fire.

The other five divisions in USPSA competition are setup depending on your caliber, minimum bullet weight, min/max power factors, how many rounds allowed [in the semi auto magazine or revolver] in the specific division. So yes, you do have choices where to use your 1911, what minimum caliber, semi auto or Revolver if you so desire!

Go here to this 2009 USPSA Rule Book http://www.uspsa.org/rules/2009masterrules9-30-2009.pdf and jump to pages 45 through 53, that explain in detail how each division is setup between pistols and rifles [multigun]....good reading! I am aware of the IDPA matches but do not know anything about their rules and/or qualifications, to provide a comparison between USPSA and IDPA....sorry.

This section on page 11 of the rule book is pretty specific about using 'backup guns'. Of course, local matches are a lot more lenient but you still shouldn't switch from major to minor pf or vice versa, or from open to limited, etc., mid match. Makes a mess for the person reporting the scores!

Competitors must use the same firearm and sighting
system for all courses of fire in a match (the
same handgun, rifle, shotgun, etc.). However, in
the event that a competitor’s original firearm
and/or sighting system become unserviceable or
unsafe during a match, the competitor must, before
using a substitute firearm and/or sighting system,
seek permission from the Range Master who may
approve the substitution provided he is satisfied:
5.1.7.1 The substitute satisfies the requirements of
the relevant Division, and, in the case of a
rifle, is of the same type, action, and caliber,
fitted with the same type of sights.
5.1.7.2 In using the substitute the competitor will
not gain a competitive advantage.
5.1.7.3 The competitor’s replacement firearm and
its appropriate ammunition must be chronographed
per Rule 5.6, regardless of whether
or not the original was previously tested.
(Does not apply to shotguns.)
5.1.7.4 If the original firearm/ammunition was not
previously tested, and if the original firearm
has already been used on a stage, and can be
safely fired (i.e. the malfunction is not related
to an inability to safely fire the handgun),
then the original friearm and its ammunition
supply remain subject to testing. (Does not
apply to shotguns.)
5.1.8 A competitor who substitutes or significantly modifies
a firearm during a match without the prior
approval of the Range Master will be subject to the
provisions of Section 10.6.
5.1.9 Competitors may be required to carry more than
one firearm at a time. However, competitors may
never use nor carry more than one handgun, one
rifle, and one shotgun during a course of fire (total
of three) (see Rule 10.5.7).
USPSA Combined Rules, 2009 Edition •

Hey Kimmie1911: I think you misread my comments and, when I said "backup" gun let me clarify here so there is no misunderstanding.

First, I am aware of the various USPSA divisions, the type of power factors, major verses minor, magazine capacity [semi auto], etc. What I meant and I suppose I should have given a better example or more examples.

The competitor will use EITHER the 1911 [as the primary competition firearm in the match] in the caliber he/she chooses, check off the PF [major or minor] and of course will know what the minimum caliber will be for that division. Or, the shooter will start and finish the entire match with his secondary ["backup"] 1911 firearm. The shooter will NOT be using two different firearms [with totally different calibers and PF's] in the same division!

Secondly, when I said having a backup firearm in competition I should have clarified that point meaning the same type of weapon as the primary, example the STI 1911 in .45acp and the secondary [backup] as either another STI 1911 in the same caliber and/or a comparable semi auto shooting the same caliber.

God forbid I am shooting a match and my primary firearm malfunctions and I can no longer use it in the same match, then with the approval of the RO or CRO, I could continue the match with the secondary [backup] firearm, same caliber and under the same PF and, of course using the same ammo that will be chrono'd at the end of the overall competition [if a chrono station is setup].

Last Sunday at the match I shot in at Rio Salado [a monthly match sponsored by a local pistol club] one shooter in stage 3 had his extractor break or malfunction. He could no longer continue with the particular firearm. The RO saw the condition, the shooter did have a spare [backup] semi auto in the same .40 caliber and, the RO allowed him to reshoot the course of fire without any penalty. Stuff does happen!

I've been shooting in USPSA local matches since August 2009 [most without a classifier], have read the "blue book" [USPSA rule book] many times for my own clarification and education to thoroughly comprehend the requirements. Where I NEED to improve is in my accuracy which lately has been the pits!

I am "branching out" so to speak and have been shooting up at the Rio Salado Sportsman Club facility in the Mesa/Phoenix area. I plan to continue shooting there inspite of the two hour drive at least twice a month [beginning in May] mostly to get the classifier scores up in the USPSA database. The guys there are much more friendly and most of all, "inclusive" in how they relate to me as a fellow shooter.

I cannot tell you how many have literally gone out of their way to show me, advise me, encourage me to be a better shooter and, observed my faults [and I have a few] pulled me aside and said, "Hey Doug, This Is How It's Done!". Now that is true mentorship and sportsman like concern!

So as I continue to learn, stay involved with USPSA competition shooting, practice more often then I have. I'll be fine and my stats will improve over time. Its been eight months [August 2009] since I got "hooked up" in this action shooting arena. I come a long way and have learned quite a bit in such a short period of time, and still learning.

Please note: When I said earlier about getting a backup 9mm this was in conjunction with my new Beretta 92FS 9mm as my secondary competition firearm. I plan to get a spare backup 1911 STI in the .45 caliber [probably another Spartan] sometime between now and September, depending on how the cash flow goes. I am in this Kimmie1911 for the long haul, so when I do compete it will be with two STI 1911's or the Beretta 92FS and its spare companion....not both.

It has to only get better!

Zanzibar - I didn't misunderstand you at all. I was addressing Triggerman's question and trying to provide some info to him since he admitted he wasn't familiar with the rules of USPSA.